Music and Politics

Jerome Camal, French of birth, is assistant to theher interest for the modal music and particularly for
Washington University of Saint Louis in jazz studies,that Indian and the attention of Martin Luther King for
logic of music and logic of ethnic music. But it is also athe fliosofia of the not-violence brought ahead by
saxophonist that is not satisfied with to live ofGhandi. In the first days of the struggle for the civil
academic searches and he doesn't want that teacherrights of the black population often M.L. King painted a
calls him, but he prefers to play in the places, to plungeparallel among the struggle for the liberty in the United
himself in jam sessions and to teach the practice ofStates and the movement for the independence in
the tool.Africa. It seems me to be able to affirm that both the
A stimulating character, that entertains in his homemen saw their job in universal terms. Nevertheless it
page a section devoted in full to the analysis of thedoesn't seem me that the music of John Coltrane has
political jazz of the sixties.been welcomed in this way and some of the most
The observations of Camal are stimulating, ideologicallyradical parties in the Movement of the civil rights they
you direct not, also succeeding at the same time towere rapid in to summon to them the saxophonist as
recover important figures of that season, giving them amusical spokesman. Same Coltrane to the idea doesn't
correct position (is worth on all the examples of Frankappear enthusiastic, as it clearly enough shows his
Kofsky and Amiri Baraka, today a little considered, ininterview to Kofsky, where he prefers to deepen his
kind the first one).musical explanations with a more general meaning
Camal quotes them, he criticizes them. I mark that theirregarding the human condition. As it underlines Craig
ideas "strong" on the jazz they maintain intact theirWerner, Coltrane and Malcom X they saw both their
charm, to distance of years.transformed message and used for justifying the
The studies on the jazz, more and more serious andpursuit of more radical objectives inside the Movement,
philologically correct, you are receiving spaces everindependently from the fact that they wanted you
had before. There are authors that bring forthwas used and interpreted their job in such way or no.
innovative thesis and different readings from thoseF.B.: you think there is a connection among the New it
usual, for instance the wise man Paul's Gilroy Blackdamages American and the jazz? And of what type?
Atlantic, teacher of Black studies to the university ofJ.C.: And' an ample question too much for a rapid
Yale, that offers a reading that has the breath of theanswer. I have never reasoned on the connection
coolness historical-political-geographical.among New Left and music, even if it seems an
From the correspondence by e-mail this interview wasinteresting matter to develop.
born, that besides opinions not discounted on ColtraneF.B.: you want to make a brief list of political passages
and Sonny Rollins, it furnishes a list at the end - also itthat in the history of the jazz you consider
everything anything else other than banal - of musicfundamental and to give apiece us a brief comment?
jazz "politics."J.C.: You my first choice is rather obvious: We insist!
Frank Bergoglio: In your pages on the jazz and theFreedom now Suite (Candid 1961). This recording
movement for the civil rights, or when you speak ofexemplifies for many different aspects as the music
the jazz of the so-called one "black nationalism", it isyou can politically be used. In first place it is an example
frequent to find the name and the work of Frankof artists of color that you use their art to regain the
Kofsky. Which opinion have you matured of his jobauthority and the control on his own history and on his
after having studied him to fund? Do you think that itnarration storiografica. The Suite of Roach follows the
introduced too ideology in relationship to the treatedstory of the population of color of African descent is in
matters or that, contrarily, the period both wellthe United States that in Africa, departing from the
described in the writings of Kofsky and Amiri Baraka?experience of the slavery, continuing with the
Jerome Camal: Kofsky is an interesting character.declaration of emancipation, to end with the struggle
Indeed ideology envelops its writings in so mighty wayfor right peers in America as in Africa. Facing the
to make more its reasonings object objections. Anmatter from this point of view is stimulating to observe,
example of this attitude is its interview to Coltrane inas they makes Scott Saul and Ingrid Monson, that the
which him test, without succeeding us to make toorder of the sections of the Suite, separate among
guarantee from Coltrane its political ideas.them, you has been changed in comparison to the
Nevertheless, some points of its discourse are faced inideas of departure of Roach and Oscar Brown Jr.
interesting way and they gather meaningful aspects:Originally the suite foresaw the departure with the
the most effective example is the description of theAfrican section before moving to the experience of
economic conditions in which you have to work thethe slavery and to pass to the emancipation. to Put the
black musicians. His book Black Nationalism in Music, isslavery to the beginning serves to strongly take root
probably at the end more profit if read as a primarythe African-American history to the experience of the
source, which the ideology that informs a part of theslavery. To depart with Africa would have
musicians of the Avant Garde reflects.emphasized the African inheritance of the
F.B: Amiri Baraka is more sociologist in the analyses, isAfrican-American culture instead. In beaten second the
Kofsky a researcher anymore "political" of the jazz... IFreedom now Suite represents well also what Gilroy it
think that its intention was to put its studies the methoddefines "black atlantic". All Africa melts the American
of Marxist analysis into practice, doesn't it seem you?jazz with the Cuban music and the African
J.C.: I Arrange, but I think that we should think to bothpercussions: it deals with an excellent example of the
as about two researchers moved by strong politicalcontinuous cultural exchange that is had among
motivations. And' past a beautiful po' of time from myAfrican people, people of the Caribbean, wide also in
reading of "Blues People", but, as memory, BarakaEurope and, naturally, to the United States. From last it
seems me it emphasized the African-American cultureneeds to remember that the Suite is after all a great
as the product and the reaction towards the slaverymoment of music, in which you/they can be seen used
and in equal time as connection to Africa. The mattersadvanced techniques of composition. Max Roach uses
of Baraka are based on a vision "of class", probablya 5/4, perhaps an answer to the success of Take
influenced from the Marxism and to lines bordering withFive, but more disposition and brave of that of
the existentialism. For him the forms of jazz and bluesBrubeck. The tone of the breaths, perfectly in the
that have had more commercial success they have"fourth" in Driva men is interesting and anticipates the
been corrupt from the white mainstream. Reading himtimes. The photo of cover that shows some students
does him the idea that he thinks that assimilation is aduring a sit-in to a counter of a cafeteria it is
form of corruption; what the bebop is a reaffirmationprovocative and the notes of cover of Nat Hentoff
of the inheritance of the black roots in music and athey are also candid and fresh to the actual reading.
taking of distance from the white hegemony that wasThe second example is surely less known. In fact if
consolidated during the Swing Era. Many groups andyou has been written a lot on the Freedom Suite of
artists of the movement coagulated him around theSonny Rollins, I would aim the attention at a 1956
African-American arts, the reasonings of Baraka theyrecording, The house The live in, performed for the
resounded. Of other song the writer of color RalphPrestige. It deals with a passage hard enough
Ellison was in strong disagreement with the theses ofconventional bop, but it is also a big beautiful example
Baraka and looked at the blues as to a form ofof signifying in music. At the end of the piece Rollins
celebration of the results reached by theinserts as tail the theme of Lift every voice and sing.
African-American art. In the demonstrations as theThat spiritual has become subsequently a kind of non
blues, where Baraka has the tendency to see theofficial hymn for the population of color. In the notes of
people of color as victims, Ellison underlines the strongcover of the cd-playpen of the Prestige, container
sense of representation and affiliation instead of it.everything how much recorded, he explains that the
F.B.: Which opinion you are you formed on the coursesaxophonist appreciated the social meaning of the text
to assign to the job of Coltrane? Before you quotedwritten by Robinson and wanted to strengthen his/her
one famous interview of his, and in that as in others,words ending the song with Lift every voice and sing.
the timidity of the saxophonist emerges, always ofHe perhaps wanted also to answer to the recent
few words, that it brings to reserved answers, humblerecording of that song performed by Frank Sinatra. In
and at the end ambiguous in comparison to the courseevery case it is interesting to notice that this is the only
of the legacy coltraniano.song of that session that has not immediately been
J.C.: I Think that the case of Coltrane to treat we needrealized by the Prestige, immediately after the
to consider his/her music from two separated visualrecording. I have not made a lot of searches on this
angles. Primo: which type of political message (if it isdisk, but I think both too often ignored, today. If then we
one of them) it foresaw Coltrane for his music?want a complete list of passages we should include at
According to: which done mean political you has beenleast the Haitian fight song and Fable of Faubus of
tied up to his music to back, from the most differentMingus and Freedom rider of Art Blakey, John's
listeners? In other words, I believe there is a differenceColtrane Alabama, the whole apparition of Archie
among as Coltrane it conceived and he saw his musicShepp to the festival jazz of Newport and
and the way in which it has been recepita andAppointment in Ghana of Jackie Mclean. There is then
interpreted. Premised this, I see a Coltrane that "it uses"Strange Fruit of Billie Holiday, but the list would be very
his music to communicate a message of integrationlong...
and universality. I like to show up a parallel among his